15 Egyptians now languish in prison. Their charge? They are Quraneyeens. Now I bet very few people in Egypt know about the El Quraneyeens. They’re Muslims who believe in the Quran, and only the Quran.
In traditional Sunni Islam, religious jurispudence and law are mainly derived from two main books: the Quran and the Hadith. The Quran we all know. But what about the Hadith? These are the actions and deeds of the Prophet Muhammed. The issue with the Hadith is this: they were written over 150 years after the death of the Prophet. Before that they were transmitted orally in a way that would make their utter authenticity pretty doubtful.
Even today no scholar or religious figure can dare to declare that the entire volumes we have now at hand are all authentic. This is the reason why the Hadith are classified into strong and weak Hadiths.
Another issue with the Hadith is the fact that many of Islam’s controversial issues are found in the Hadith and not the Quran. Things such as the status of women and Sharia’s penal code were derived from the Hadith. Even the adult breast feeding fatwa has its roots in a Hadith.
Now, after the controversy caused by the breast feeding fatwa, there has been increasing voices calling for the “purging” of the Hadith by removing or discrediting Hadiths that contradict common sense. The highest religious authority in Turkey has already done that.
However, since I live in a country that prefers to brush controversial issues under the rug instead of confronting them, whomever ventures into this topic either gets silenced by the religious figures here or gets arrested by the regime that appoints these figures. This is what happened to the Quraneyeens. Just a few weeks ago, the police arrested 15 Quraneyeens, among them authors and editors in the group’s website Ahl El Quran (people of the Quran) (English version here). The website is headed by the Quraneyeen’s most popular figure: Dr. Ahmed Sobhi Mansour.
Dr. Ahmed Sobhi Mansour (pic above), a former professor at Al Azhar University (Sunni Islam’s most prestigious learning institution) was sacked from his job after he wrote a book arguing against the authenticity of the Hadith and calling for the sole dependence on the Quran. Mansour did not only lose his job, but he was arrested in 1988 and had all his books confiscated. He was released and went to work with the late thinker and author Farag Fouda who was murdered by terrorists in 1994. Mansour now lives in the U.S. and is a member of Free Muslims, the only American Muslim organization that held an anti-terror rally.
Now a quick browse through Mansour’s articles on his website shows that he argues against the hair cover, the killing of those who converted out of Islam, and the stoning of adulterers. That’s pretty cool stuff. Cool stuff that makes infidel souls such as myself stop being infidels!
Update: Reader Steven Dzik emailed me telling me of the resemblance that the El Quraneyeen have with the Karaites, the Jewish group that rejects the Talmud and rely on the Torah. That’s very true. The two groups are very similar.
I just now realized you are back I guess I got to catch up on some reading.
Being an infidel I guess ain’t all that bad atleast you don’t have to follow all those rules.
Comment by ayman — June 28, 2007 @ 6:09 am
I have to say that I did not know the difference between the two books and I am relieved to learn that the most horrible of the ROP comes not from the original book but from one written 150 years after. The christian religion as well has many “manmade” interpretations for people to use and abuse at will and you will not usually find what they are saying in the original interpretation. I am really sorry that people cannot be free to pursue their idea of God in peace and when that occurs we shall all have peace around the world.
Comment by Jaded — June 30, 2007 @ 8:29 pm
Have you seen this yet?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB118316659632153772.html?mod=googlenews_wsj
Comment by John — July 1, 2007 @ 10:01 pm
It’s a sad but heart-warming story.
Comment by Eva, Canada — July 2, 2007 @ 7:25 am
Hallo everybody,
Very interesting indeed. Mr. Mansour’s idea have its counterpart in Christianity, too. The main difference between Protestants and Catholics is that the first base their creed only and exclusively on the Bible.
This difference caused the wars of religion in the 16th and 17th Century and had several million people killed.
After those mass killings they settled on the idea to keep peoples’ ideas about this subject private.
Interesting times ahead for you.
Georg
Comment by Georg — July 2, 2007 @ 12:08 pm
It’s always been like this, Georg, through the entire history. The wide-eyed people are ultimately subdued but at a terrible cost to the society. Interesting times ahead for all of us.
Comment by Eva, Canada — July 3, 2007 @ 1:23 am
Is there anything we in the United States can do to help?
Comment by David Spence — July 3, 2007 @ 5:05 pm
I just tried to post a comment, but it came back with correct the E-mail, which I tried to do. but to no avail. Good Post. Glad to see you back on line.
Comment by the tapper — July 4, 2007 @ 1:23 am
Welcome back!!! Wahashteeny.
I just now realized you are back. It won’t take me long to catch up since I only missed you by one month.
Today, I have a reason to smile!
(Please note the new name.
Formerly: To Egypt, With Love)
Have you ever read any of Dr. Khaled Abou El Fadl’s books or articles? I think you would like his works too.
Comment by The Ministry of Common Sense — July 4, 2007 @ 8:20 pm
I am worried by a Country which still consider for 50 to 95 % that little girls of 10 to 12 years old must be sacrified to the horrible tradition of cutting their genital parts
Comment by Nomad — July 5, 2007 @ 7:49 am
http://hebdo.ahram.org.eg/arab/ahram/2007/7/4/null0.htm
Comment by nomad — July 5, 2007 @ 1:28 pm
Nomad,
I am worried about that too. Recently I have been involved in a debate to find the exact percentage of women in Egypt who have suffered this torture. The world health organization puts the figures at about 95% also. Shocking percentage for 2007.
But what is even more shocking is that people still think this is necessary to protect the family’s honor. Or do they? Or is it just another case of people doing things just for the sake of doing them, without understanding what or why, just because it has been done for thousands of years? The blind following the blind.
I could go on all day about this subject…
Thanks for that link. It was in French but I stumbled through it none-the-less.
QUESTION EVERYTHING.
Comment by The Ministry of Common Sense — July 5, 2007 @ 3:41 pm
yeah, common sense is not human sense anyway ; while in our countries we manage to forbid the standards of beauty for dogs, cutting the ears or tails, unnatural practices are still supported for girls in parts of the world ; does that mean these little girls even count less than animals, and that the female condition is the evilest one !
I mean whatever you say or do in politics, if nothing is done for these girls, you can’t think of improving things in such countries
Comment by nomad — July 6, 2007 @ 9:51 am
Nomad,
You make an excellent point. You also raise and interesting question. The only real problem with dogs is that their saliva is thought to be unclean. This can be easily remedied by simply washing your hands or affected body part, as no one has ever died from being licked by a dog. But women on the other hand. Women are much more dangerous and evil than this. Women spend their days thinking of ways to seduce men. Women have a chemical in their hair that when the sun hits it, emits a ray that causes men to go into a hypnotic state of sexual frenzy. (Don’t laugh. Their is a Sheikh in Iran who once said this causing multitudes of women to run and cover their hair.) Why, women, just by using their eyes, can cause any man - even if it is the bus driver - to be immediately overtaken by uncontrolled sexual desires.
You can’t get much more evil than that. I once even had a man delete a copy of my CV (resume) that I had sent him, simply because there was a picture of me on it and - my hair was not covered. I shudder to think at what looking at my hair did to him.
But here is the irony of the situation. Do the men realize that by mutilating women for the sake of taking away their sexual pleasure, it is really the men who suffer in the end? Because if a woman in not sexually satisfied - the man won’t be either. Could this be one of the underlying causes of sexual frustration of men (even the married ones) in the region?
Comment by The Ministry of Common Sense — July 6, 2007 @ 3:17 pm
Common sense, I understand your situation as a woman, but being the object of men desires doesn’t prevent you to to think on HOW or WHAT you can do for stopping the barbaric excision on little girls ; I mean your the one who is educated, you’ll probably have to breed girls too ; will you obbey to a thousand of years old ritual?
I was told that in my country women have not the higher and official step in politic,(they don’t care of the glory) but that they do inflenced men on the pillows alike egeries, then I can’t think that in your country men are different !
so au boulot
Comment by nomad — July 6, 2007 @ 5:34 pm
Nomad,
Well see, sir, the difference is I am American. I am not the object of men’s desires untill I step foot into Egypt or another country where men are not properly socialized with the opposite sex.
And to answer your question - no, I would never practice such a ritual. I never even heard of this procedure until several years ago when it was profiled on an episode of Law and Order. I was shocked and amazed.
But obey a ritual? Never. I obey no rituals. Which is why I am an infidel soul also like BP (see his comment in the text above). What can I do to stop this barbaric ritual, or even begin to teach people to get their heads out of their asses and look at what is going on around them? Well for starters, I thank God everyday that we have such brave progressive Muslims like Dr. Mansour and Dr. Abou El Fadl who are courageously blazing this path for us. Along with the others who have come before only to be arrested, thrown in jail unjustly, silenced, or even killed for trying. I subscribed to the Free Muslim Coalition newletter (also mentioned in the post) and maybe someday can become an active voice in this organization or one like it.
As for influencing men on pillows….. sorry. This is something I don’t know anything about. I sleep alone. For now anyway.
Comment by The Ministry of Common Sense — July 6, 2007 @ 8:17 pm
I can see, your privileged from where you stand ; anyway I hope that people in Egypt will react positively
Comment by Nomad — July 7, 2007 @ 12:58 am
I hope they react positively too. Because very soon I will be joining them.
Comment by The Ministry of Common Sense — July 7, 2007 @ 5:52 am
Thanks for bringing this case to light BP! Is there something that can be done to help free these people?
Comment by Yaeli — July 7, 2007 @ 12:53 pm
I just realized that you resumed blogging … welcome back
Comment by Nobody — July 7, 2007 @ 1:35 pm
“Why, women, just by using their eyes, can cause any man - even if it is the bus driver - to be immediately overtaken by uncontrolled sexual desires.”
If you were to ask any 15 year old young man you would learn that a man can be overtaken by uncontrolled sexual desires even when he is by himself.:)
Comment by mikek — July 8, 2007 @ 2:26 am
BP –you are back!! I missed you and now it seems have a good bit to catch up on since I’m late to catching on you are blogging again
In regards to the Quraneyeens that have been arrested, anyone have an idea about what we can do to bring pressure to bear to free them?
Comment by Yaeli — July 8, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
Bummer for the Quraneyeens.
Comment by Matt — July 12, 2007 @ 7:58 pm
The shiits, the Quraanis and even the Sunni’s they are all in the same bag
I dont understand wats so dangerous about the pple who think differently!
thats too much
Comment by spellz — July 14, 2007 @ 5:56 pm
The difference is Jesus loves and forgives, he does not know hate and never preaches it.
“If you were to ask any 15 year old young man you would learn that a man can be overtaken by uncontrolled sexual desires even when he is by himself.:) Comment by mikek — July 8, 2007 @ 2:26 am”
In what culture? 15 year old men control themselves like gentlemen every hour of every day for the most part in my culture. Even with women having the freedom to drive and think and live granted as a human right.
Comment by Tom Penn — July 15, 2007 @ 8:45 am
Jackass, I was joking about teenagers fwaping. Even when they are alone.
Comment by mikek — July 16, 2007 @ 4:46 am
where are all of the Egytian blogs going?
Comment by hwy93 — July 20, 2007 @ 2:36 am
hi, I’ve just positively reviewed your site over at Heaven’s Highway. thanks for all of your great information and personal peerspectives about the ME situation. Excellent material and terrific sources.
You can find the “blogachute” review over at http://www.glenkirk.blogspot.com
Comment by John Stuart — July 20, 2007 @ 3:02 am
Too bad that even “just the quran” exhorts racism and murder from muslims.
e.g. 8:55 “all non-muslims are lower than animals”
9:111 “all muslims are under obligation to fight and kill for allah”
and that’s just the beginning of it.
Comment by A — July 25, 2007 @ 3:52 pm
Free Muslims is an interesting organization who want to reform Islam to where it recognizes that religion and state MUST be separated in order for either to work.
A man praying 5 times a day because the state ordered him to do so isn’t neccessarily religious… he’s doing what he has to do to stay alive with the power of the state behind the religion. This is why this arrangement doesn’t work for either the state OR the religion. You end up with a state running a religion full of hypocrites, not a holy Paradise on earth.
One of the things Free Muslims are now facing in the US is the polling stats that say that somewhere around 39% of the young Muslim people in the US think that suicide bombing is OK under some circumstances. They’re trying to make the young people understand that this is NEVER “OK” under ANY circumstances, and as a relatively new organization, they’re having a difficult time reaching their target audience.
I am planning to write to them and ask them to consider taking this point of view to the young people:
As a religious man (speaking to the young man who thinks suicide bombing is sometimes OK), what do you think God’s reaction will be when you burst into His House without an invitation, perhaps dragging with you the souls of a dozen or so innocents who are ALSO His Creations? Do you think he will welcome you as a martyr after killing those He placed on Earth for His own Reasons, or will he summon the Archangels to throw you out the gate as a party crasher?
I think it would be important to place a seed of doubt into the minds of would-be martyrs. If the “certainty” of becoming a martyr was replaced by the 50-50 chance that they could be thrown out as “party crashers”, it could make a difference in whether they would throw their lives away on that chance.
Comment by mamapajamas — July 29, 2007 @ 9:35 pm
Welcome back BP !
Comment by Paul — August 2, 2007 @ 3:30 am
BP… are you alive or what?
Comment by The Raccoon — August 9, 2007 @ 5:04 pm
Maybe he took the time to read the Koran, at last, and discovered that is is not better or more authentic than the hadiths, just a bit more chaotic.
Comment by ajm — August 10, 2007 @ 10:29 am
BP,
can we still count you among the living?
Comment by David — August 10, 2007 @ 8:10 pm
Just a peep, BP, so we know you’re okay?
Comment by Bec — August 12, 2007 @ 2:35 am
Buenas tardes, mi nombre es Elena y soy de España, soy una enamorada de Egipto, por eso tengo una pagina web creada sobre Egipto y como al ver su blog me encanto querÃa saber si estaba dispuesto a linkar las paginas.
por lo demás enhorabuena por su pagina.
saludos Elena
http://www.cleoppatra.com
Comment by elena — August 13, 2007 @ 3:32 pm
BP? What’s up? Everything allright? Say something so we know you’re OK!
Comment by Suzanne — August 14, 2007 @ 9:44 am
BP, we’re getting worried here! Say something!
Comment by Roman Kalik — August 15, 2007 @ 4:11 pm
He must be really busy.
At least I believe he logged into Youtube recently:
bigpharaoh
Joined: 22 May 2006
Last Login: 4 days ago
Videos Watched: 150
But please BP or anyone else who knows him. SAY SOMETHING!
Comment by Suzanne — August 15, 2007 @ 9:47 pm
Poor BP. I think they finally caught up to him.
Comment by David — August 16, 2007 @ 5:26 am